There was a time when the thought that New Order could exist without Peter Hook consistently playing and looking like he's in the wrong band but with a version with a new (!) guitarist formerly of the 'nearly as good as Gene!' also rans Marion and a cowboy hat wearing cabaret bass replacement... I'd have referred to the Factory code of conduct and put it all down as a bad trip.

New Order were important for a very long time but relatively when you look at everything from Technique on and especially with the freemasonry type reviews around Music Complete where the music publishing industry seems scared to death to say anything bad about it we've got to look at what's going on and why I'm consigning the memory of the band post Factory as a different entity to what artistically, culturally and musically was the pinnacle of the punk ethic moving into the mainstream.

It's difficult to reconcile how good the group were when the new version is trading on old form/ past glories and in my view the recent Q award is the point where you have to question what the new New Order agenda is and for all Hooky's winging the fact that a living and vital component of the bands success can be champagne toasted out of a legacy he helped built is (for me) insane.

I think there's a collective amnesia around New Order from us fans and it verges on the bizarre.

Final moan... Have you heard the 'Hot Chip Mix' of Tutti Frutti? I'd rather swallow sick for 13 minutes than experience that again.

Bollocks to all that. Hook left and tried to deny the rest of the band their career as Neworder and the fans a continued Neworder. He really thought he was that fucking important, the self centred cunt. Time has shown that not many support his view.

"Living and vital component"? He fucking left. Scarpered. Skidaddled. Buggered off. Put the hanky down you soft bastard. It was his choice. Let him live with its consequences.

He is denied nothing from what he built. The back catalogue at Warners serves him now, as it always did. In fact, since all he does is recycle it at gigs, it serves him better than anyone.

Penultimately, it occurs to me that MC is getting such uniformly positive reviews the world over because it is, you know, pretty fucking good. Which actually makes many Neworder fans happy, despite Hooks efforts to deny them.

And finally, if you don't like it, don't listen to it. Feel free to go watch Ralph and the Light.

*drops mike, walks off*

Totally agree about the remix. I also would prefer to swallow puke.

Aa for New Order, people leave bands all the time. What are the rest supposed to do stop working
For me MC is the best New Order LP bar none. All the gigs are sold out its gonna be a blast!!!

I'm sure Barney is happy to be on Mute instead of the chaos that was Factory.

Totally respect your point of view and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but by the same token I'm not sure I agree with much of it.

With the best will in the world even an impartial outsider looking in at the current NO situation probably wouldn't level the "trading on old form/ past glories" accusation at the side which has just released a full album of brand new original music. Also, the inference that the (entire) music press have given said album generous reviews out of some sort of conspirational deference is a bit of a stretch; there comes a point where you've read so many complimentary reviews across so many unconnected international sources that it becomes accurate to say that Music Complete has been both a critical and commercial success.

Oh and I quite like the Hot Chip remix...

Edited by user 22 October 2015 08:57:10(UTC)  | Reason: Tidy.

I still hold Technique as the best New Order album, but Music Complete landed in a breathtaking 2nd place (or at least tied with PCL), a feat you can't say for pretty much any band of their age on the planet. There are already four classics in the umbrella canon: Closer, PCL (enduring points for reinvigorating the group after Movement), Technique, and the debut Electronic LP. (I don't rank UP that highly -- always thought side A had a tedious pace sans Disorder.) I'd argue MC edges PCL for better consistency, and it may edge Electronic for sonic diversity. Does Low Life make sense as the broadest representation of their sound? Perhaps, but its tracks don't comprise a New Order top 10.

I suggested this in an earlier post when MC had just been released that the secret to New Order's artistic longevity has been the synchronicity between Steve and Bernard. With Gillian back in the fold Steve seems much more energized about New Order and I think Bernard was motivated by that energy to put an end to the drift that had settled in around WFTSC. There's a Rapido interview from '89 on youtube featuring the three of them without Hooky, and though it's just 4 mins, you get the feeling Technique was the baby of happy compromise between the three of them, with Hooky as the lead guitarist as bass player filling out the sound as required. If you compare Technique to Brotherhood, Hooky's bass is considerably more restrained in the mix, and I really think the last time Hooky wrote songs for New Order were the songs that dominate side A of Brotherhood. The upshot here is that Hooky was no longer the center of the riffs as he was in Joy Division, and instead of adapting and broadening what he could do with bass guitar, he stuck with his trademark sound. Yes, it's iconic, but I've heard enough live bootlegs from the 80s where I think, Christ, Bernard (and Gillian and Steve) must've wished Hooky had turned down a bit. For all of Bernard's ego, Hooky's jealousy and own incessant self-regard has been the kiss of death for a lot of fans. And I think Hooky droning on about the good old days in Joy Division is infinitely more damaging to this rarefied notion of mystique than the current New Order amusedly showing up to collect belated industry awards.

Or Cliff's Wired for Sound

Trying to hold off playing any MC songs or remixes until the weekend. It plays in my head though, but I’m somehow diverted to Three Dog Night (Mama told me not to come), Iggy Pop (Cry for love), and even odder, when I’m hearing Tutti Frutti in my head, suddenly it turns into the Sisters of Mercy Temple of Love.

I'd like to add that all those sharpening knives in Hooky's defense have the air of most holier than thou -- it's nearly like hearing someone say "I was there when Ian Curtis first shit his diapers!" As an American born in '85 I have an admiration for the devotion to the group's history that the older fans have displayed, especially in all the bootlegs and videos uploaded to youtube documenting the group during their imperial era. But this territorial attitude and sanctimoniousness is really antithetical to what the group is about. New Order -- it's in the damn name -- is about change. How many times have people said, Never again will I hold New Order in high regard, they have violated my trust...down the line: Confusion, Subculture remix, State of the Nation, World In Motion, Republic, Rock The Shack, among many other things, none of them *really* that egregious. It's just a different standard for New Order than virtually any other group I can think of. Complain about redundant compilations, or shoddy fidelity on reissues, but *new* music whose quality is generous to the fans and adds to their legacy isn't something that can be easily dismissed due to the absence of Peter Hook.

I totally agree .

I don't get the Ralf Little reference. I mean, I know he played Peter Hook in 24HPP but it was hardly a signature role, was it?

You're right. The fact that no one was complaining as much as your are when New Order continued to use their name without Gillian Gilbert for over a decade is quite a double standard.

Edited by user 23 October 2015 09:04:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best live band ever though

He means he's from North West UK? Maybe that's what he meant, dunno.