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The Unpalatable Truth About New Order Lyrics

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Michael Monkhouse		#26 Posted : 29 March 2021 22:27:32(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		I can't believe it's not butter or that if you like New Order and want to criticise BS lyrics, you're starting with True Feces. There's Weirdo, Truth and everything the fucker's done since Technique.

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perspexorange		#27 Posted : 30 March 2021 01:00:03(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 20/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,377 Location: Salop Thanks: 504 times Was thanked: 3833 time(s) in 2376 post(s)		I totally agree with Michael and others here in that True Faith is one of the high points in Bernard’s lyrical output. In 1987, when I was 15, I was into standard ‘rock’, which included bands like Rainbow (don’t laugh) amongst others. So, I was used to hearing lyrics like this: “I wanna love you all night long I wanna be with you all night long” Then I heard True Faith: “I used to think that the day would never come I'd see the light in the shade of the morning sun My morning sun is the drug that brings me near To the childhood I lost, replaced by fear I used to think that the day would never come That my life would depend on the morning sun” To say that this song had a profound impact on my teenage life is a massive understatement. I then started looking to other tracks and Blue Monday was one of the first: “I see a ship in the harbour I can and shall obey But if it wasn't for your misfortune I'd be a heavenly person today.” Suddenly, I was faced with lyrics that I couldn’t interpret immediately; something that I’d have to think about. This was very appealing to me. Coupled with the band’s ‘non-image’ and reticence to do interviews, here was a group of individuals that seemed so bloody mysterious. Compare them with most rock bands dressed head to toe in leather and/or spandex camping it up on TOTP, singing about how they want to make it with some centrefold. Night and Day. There were other examples of enigmatic lyrics, some a bit daft (“from my head to my toes, to my teeth, through my nose, you get these words wrong”) and some ridiculously simple (Oh you’ve got green eyes, oh you’ve got blue eyes, oh you’ve got grey eyes), but all still highly emotive. I’ve often said that True Faith’s b-side, 1963, is the record that changed my music taste forever. When I finally heard it (on purchase of Substance), I couldn’t believe the beautiful melancholy of both the music and the lyrics. From that day onwards, I was no longer a ‘rock’ fan. I wanted something ‘more’ and New Order, and Joy Division, gave me that. All that being said, I will admit that, post 1990, Sumner’s lyrics haven’t been all that great (especially the ‘hey now, you’ll be fine’ type). However, I will defend his 1980s lyrics with my last breath. His words spoke more to me than any line from a Rainbow tune.

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Michael Monkhouse		#28 Posted : 30 March 2021 02:55:40(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Fuck, someone agrees with me. I had a similar intro to the band in 1989 and fell in love with the enigmatic image and song lyrics cos I heard the best first: Round and Round, True Faith, Thieves like us (do they?). Sadly it was mostly downhill after that... In a similar vein, my first solo McCartney album was Band on the Run and I assumed it was typical of the quality. Wild Life was a breath of fecked hair. I'm not convinced sincerity suffices for art though. Melanie C I want to be With ye In a tree Listening to Let it Be By the bea Tles, you see. Just ye and me. Whoopee Edited by user 30 March 2021 02:58:43(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

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Coops		#29 Posted : 30 March 2021 03:57:26(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 25/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 448 Location: Xiberia Thanks: 34 times Was thanked: 611 time(s) in 456 post(s)		Blimey, there's a lot of over-thinking going on here Stray Dog's good and that's a new one, well, six years old now but it's as new as we're going to get for a while. And I think there's plenty of decent lyrics on Music Complete so maybe when Bernards happy he writes well and when he's not he just thinks "fuck it, that'll do, I'm going home".

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perspexorange		#30 Posted : 30 March 2021 05:39:13(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 20/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,377 Location: Salop Thanks: 504 times Was thanked: 3833 time(s) in 2376 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Coops Stray Dog's good and that's a new one, well, six years old now but it's as new as we're going to get for a while. Yep - Stray Dog features some good lyrics, and that can be said for a lot of the songs on Music Complete. A return to form, both musically and lyrically. It's the Get Ready / WFTSC / Lost Sirens period where things went a bit screwy. Although I'm not a massive fan of Republic, lyrically it wasn't that terrible (although there are a few lines lines that would certainly fall into that category). Incidentally, I love Stray Dog and it is easily one of my favourites on Music Complete (along with Singularity and Academic). It sounds like the natural successor to Murder, but with some added (pretty interesting) prose. Definitely far more intriguing lyrically than the typical 'you're ok, just stay with me, we'll be ok together' style of Sumner's later work. Hmm, I now want to listen to Music Complete. Let's hope we get at least one more LP out of the band.

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Michael Monkhouse		#31 Posted : 30 March 2021 05:52:12(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Yes. Let's!

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tapebias		#32 Posted : 30 March 2021 08:34:50(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Republic Groups: Registered Joined: 28/11/2012(UTC) Posts: 175 Location: UK Thanks: 36 times Was thanked: 316 time(s) in 175 post(s)		Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!

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50poundnote		#33 Posted : 30 March 2021 09:28:46(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 550 Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 1066 time(s) in 551 post(s)		Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Once it was "just the lads" and they indulged their worst rock impulses (Rock The Shack, Working Overtime) everything kinda sucked. Get Ready, WFTSC, and Lost Sirens are definitely ranked at the bottom for me. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.
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M1		#34 Posted : 30 March 2021 13:05:44(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Republic Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 242 Location: Adelaide Thanks: 109 times Was thanked: 307 time(s) in 242 post(s)		Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Once it was "just the lads" and they indulged their worst rock impulses (Rock The Shack, Working Overtime) everything kinda sucked. Get Ready, WFTSC, and Lost Sirens are definitely ranked at the bottom for me. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete. Agreed. Now, if we can only get a little more Gillian backing vox on there too...

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depthcharge		#35 Posted : 30 March 2021 23:44:32(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Republic Groups: Registered Joined: 16/02/2013(UTC) Posts: 194 Location: Australia Thanks: 11 times Was thanked: 325 time(s) in 195 post(s)		Originally Posted by: tapebias Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines! Reminds me of the time Johnny locked him in a room with a legal prescription and a pen.

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depthcharge		#36 Posted : 31 March 2021 00:07:24(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Republic Groups: Registered Joined: 16/02/2013(UTC) Posts: 194 Location: Australia Thanks: 11 times Was thanked: 325 time(s) in 195 post(s)		I loved NO's earlier-mid phase lyrics. Obtuse, interpretational, irreverent. Coupled with Bernard's earnest, almost childlike vocals, they offset the cold, hard machinery of the music perfectly. He flipped to a more "observational" style of lyric with age. You can see why - he could no longer pretend he wasn't an elder musical statesman, well-heeled and yachting around the Med between albums. Hard to keep playing the poor, unsettled, alienated youth card. Unfortunately his observations on life aren't his strong suit and I find the lyrics of stuff like Krafty, Restless, Be A Rebel and so on pretty bland. "We all need an job", "There's more to life", "You can change if you want to" type stuff. Or maybe it was just the drugs.

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is it bro		#37 Posted : 31 March 2021 14:33:55(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Republic Groups: Registered Joined: 22/11/2012(UTC) Posts: 224 Location: Gaza Strip Thanks: 3 times Was thanked: 291 time(s) in 229 post(s)		I think one of the biggest clunky lyrical lines of Barneys anything that rhymes will do, lazyitus repertoire is: Dont wanna own a key, don’t wanna wash my car I still cringe every time I play Turn my Way. A great song ruined by one line.

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Michael Monkhouse		#38 Posted : 01 April 2021 01:50:09(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete. Gillian is their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's a common misconception that the plodding dadrock between Republic and Mucous Complete is due to losing Gillian (their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). It sounds cool - blame men for everything - but it isn't borne out by the facts cos she was on Brutal and Get Ready (though not the tour). The only album she missed was Sirens/LS and I've no idea how much she contributed to MC, but I doubt it was more than the others. The others are their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, there was a real change after Technique. Their approach became far more professional or bog standard, depending on your point of view. I read that one of the reasons they started repeated setlists in 89 was practical: travelling long distances meant they had to programme equipment in advance, and big US venues were less tolerant of their fucking around on stage. And yeah, the Turd my Way lyrics are sub Andrew Dice Clay, despite the strong music. I could say that republic had strong lyrics but weak music, Get ready the opposite. Or I could shut the fuck up cos no one cares what anyone else thinks.

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Michael Monkhouse		#39 Posted : 01 April 2021 04:27:57(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Originally Posted by: depthcharge Originally Posted by: tapebias Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines! Reminds me of the time Johnny locked him in a room with a legal prescription and a pen. Try again? Not if it leads to another Raise the Pussy.

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The Shadow		#40 Posted : 01 April 2021 13:16:31(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 30/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 412 Location: Derby Thanks: 91 times Was thanked: 581 time(s) in 412 post(s)		Like everything new order lots of contradictions when it comes to lyrics. I think movement to republic Bernard (and the others as they were involved up to technique) I think NO lyrics are underrated. Some songs may mean nothing at all but cut deep with the listener a 1000 islands in the sea...., others can be an oxymoron but still great, if you listen hard I will make you see, be genuinely funny and bring a smile, you look like a pig you should be in a zoo, Be moving, this is a song about the innocent. Anthem like, up down turn around, mundane, maybe I’ve forgotten the name and the address. After the factory years they have been mixed, smiles have been replaced with cringes (slow jam). Too much hey now, hey you , hey hey hey.....Personally I think get ready is a strong album but let down my lyrics although personally listening enjoyment is not ruined. However I like Bernards observational lyrics on songs such as Restless, Krafty etc, MC definitely a return to better lyrics. In fact MC gets the balance right as when not much mean it is on tracks like tutti fruiti which is a full on dance track where lyrics are rarely required to be the focal point more ab96t the hook! Nice to see stray dog getting some deserved love. NO have always been about the music and the lyrics are just a part and not the whole.
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Michael Monkhouse		#41 Posted : 02 April 2021 00:21:40(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		I'd agree with most of the Shadow. The classic example is Primitive Notion, which would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if the lyrics weren't so limp. Magic potion? What is this, Harry fucking Potter? The lyrics to Leave me Alone are, like a lot of them, meaningless and meaningful at the same time. As I mentioned, Republic is better lyrically than musically, though some of the second side is fairly cringeworthy. Get Ready is musically tough but lyrically crud. You CAN buy honey with money. Is it just me or does Winnie the Pooh sound like a polite term for anal?

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Coops		#42 Posted : 04 April 2021 12:15:27(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 25/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 448 Location: Xiberia Thanks: 34 times Was thanked: 611 time(s) in 456 post(s)		Put a bit of Technique on earlier, goes well with the sunshine, thought I'd enjoy a bit of what many folk think of as Bernards best lyrics, you know, before he went a bit hey now hey nonny nonny. Fine Time. Teeth . Brilliant.

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