I figure this is the best place to post this (stats from setlist.fm)
https://www.setlist.fm/s.../new-order-63d6b237.html

now granted, an 'average' setlist doesn't really exist,
but its basically the statistical view of the songs they've
played on tour, and weighted with the setlists.


but basically it traces back what i said about minimal changes,
starting from 2001:
=============
new order - average setlists

---

==========
1 intro - and then the familiar - crystal - regret combo - and usually ceremony
2 you will see the basics - a few joy division tracks - which are now played during the encore
3 mid songs which are replaceable - usually from get ready, or waiting for the sirens call, even some from technique
4 the closers - bizarre love triangle, true faith, temptation, and blue monday
5 the encore, which moved around blue monday, but now is all joy division


going forward:


not much of difference from previous year, same format



skipping a few years, but a little variation in the middle, but the rest is the same




another year, and again, very few changes

5 years later...


a few more from power corruption and lies, but the rest is the same...

the next year, they started rotating the opener - to elegia


still following the same format

10 years ago, they started this format, which is what we have now


586 was the only real change, but the rest is still the same today




they starting focusing on a couple of tracks from music complete, and a lost siren track
the rest was exactly the same



the next 5 years - excluding the 2 covid year (2020-2021) would see slight variations of this


but with the exception of a few of the middle songs, from music complete, the rest were the same.

so,no for the last year, and this year, we have about 75% of the same songs from 20+ years ago,
with the same format - except now, all the joy division songs are in the encore.



i'm pretty sure new order will stick with this format going forward without changing it to much,
except rotating a few songs in and out.

the rest will remain the same.

later
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ne ga t ive 1

I don't think the band are any different from any other popular legacy band that have been around for 40+ years.

They are always going to include 'the hits' or 'the fan favourites'.

Here are two random recent setlists from a couple of other big legacy bands:

Depeche Mode:

Going Backwards(**)
It's No Good(*)
Barrel of a Gun(**)
A Pain That I'm Used To(**)
Useless(*)
Precious(*)
World in My Eyes(*)
Cover Me(**)
The Things You Said(@)
Home(**)
In Your Room(*)
Where's the Revolution(**)
Everything Counts(*)
Stripped(*)
Enjoy the Silence(*)
Never Let Me Down Again(*)
I Want You Now(@)
Walking in My Shoes(*)
A Question of Time(*)
Personal Jesus(*)

Simple Minds (as I know you like them, -1):

Act of Love(**)
Love Song(*)
Glittering Prize(*)
Promised You a Miracle(*)
Waterfront(*)
Book of Brilliant Things
Let There Be Love(*)
Vision Thing(**)
Belfast Child(*)
Theme for Great Cities(*)
Someone Somewhere in Summertime(*)
See the Lights(**)
Don't You (Forget About Me)(*)
Alive and Kicking(*)
Sanctify Yourself(*)

* = Single (classic era)
** = Single (modern-era)
@ = fan-favourite

As you can see, the two bands are mainly just parading out their classic singles, with a smattering of new singles (mainly taken from their latest LP).
I've not compared them over years in the same way as you have, but I strongly suspect that, if you compared the typical setlists for each band over the last 10 years or so, they're going to paint a similar picture. Not exactly the same, but still including a lot of their hits.

What you have to think about is that, a lot of the people going to see these bands aren't going to be people like you and I, hanging out in forums.
They're going to be people who are like 'oh, <insert legacy band name here> are playing in Seattle in August. I've never seen them, but quite fancy it, as it's local'.

Imagine how disappointed you'd be if you were them and you turned up, they didn't play any singles and you didn't recognise any of the tracks. You'd be pissed off and it wouldn't feel like you actually went to see them.

I know if I went to see Simple Minds, I'd be a bit fed up if they didn't play Love Song or Promised You A Miracle.

Keep the punters happy.

these are played quite often,
if not at every show




that's all well and good, but not really helpful to those, going to several shows, which usually doesn't happen.

and if you only hear 1 or 2 different songs, then you wouldn't really want to spend that much money on seeing them multiple times.

back in the 80's or 90's, if i liked a band, i would see them 2-4 times if possible, and sometimes the shows would be very different.

this discourages people from seeing them more than once.
also, they have had several live releases, so why not put some of those rarer tracks on there,
instead of the usual, as they have for the last 3-4 releases.

later
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ne gat ive 1

Edited by user 22 March 2023 04:58:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Totally agreed.

To be honest, I'd settle for 2 or 3 old favourites introduced. Classic stuff, that they haven't played in years, such as Everything's Gone Green and Thieves Like Us (although I doubt Bernard's vocal range could do the latter justice and this might be why they don't attempt it any more).

The MiF gigs were incredible and they should've taken them on tour (although the logistics, presumably, were problematic).
It was great to see some old classics dug out and I really wish they'd do something similar again.

I suppose, off the back of it, we did get revamped airings of Vanishing Point, Sub-Culture, Shellshock etc. (although the latter hasn't been used that much). So that's something.

I believe Steve especially had a lot of work deconstructing and reconstructing the tracks for MiF, so I guess it would be a lot of work doing something similar for another batch of classics. Shame.

...and they will never play an album in its entirety. I can't imagine Bernard would find it appealing and they certainly don't want to be seen as emulating Peter Hook & the Light. Fortunately, the positive response to Hooky's tours has influenced New Order to occasionally dig out some long ignored treasures in the last few years ("AiiWiW", "In a Lonely Place", "Lonesome Tonight" and "Thieves Like Us", for instance).

But what would you have them do?
Not play the hits / fan-favourites?

As much as I would LOVE the band to perform a set full of deep cuts, we know that's never going to happen when they have tracks, like Blue Monday, True Faith and Temptation to whip out.


Here's a little story about the MiF gigs which, I think, sums up the opinion of the average person (i.e. not super-fans like us) on legacy bands.

Before heading to Granada Studios on the day of the gig I went to, my good friend and me decided to do an afternoon / evening on the beer in Manchester.

Calling at our fourth or fifth venue of the 'pub crawl', we went into a bar called 'Bar Atlas', just opposite where the Haçienda used to be.
When trying to chose a suitably nice gin for our G&Ts, the bartender asked 'oh, are you here for the gin tasting?'.
To which my reply was 'How much?'. His response was 'Free!'. To which I then responded 'Yes, yes we are!'

So, we sat on a balcony outside, overlooking the Haç flats, whilst we were treated (and I mean treated!) to copious amounts of free gin. All of this was provided by an Australian couple who had come over to the UK to promote their brand ('Four Pillars' - very nice, highly recommended, incidentally).

Anyway, several very large drinks in, we got really friendly with this lovely couple and the topic turned to 'are you local, why are you in Manchester etc.' To which the following conversation occurred:

Us: We're here to see a gig.

Them: Oh, who's playing?

Us: New Order.

Them: New Order! Wow, we love them! They're playing here, tonight? In their home town? Awesome! Any idea whether we can get tickets?

Us: Doubtful. They sold out a few months back.

Them: Oh, that's a real shame! We'd have loved to see them.

Us: Yeah, bit of a bummer. They're doing a really cool thing too, with a synth orchestra, where they're not-playing the hits and playing 'deep cuts' that they've not played for years. No 'Blue Monday' etc.

Them: Oh! Really?... I'd don't think I'd really want to see them then.


So, there you go - average non-fan's opinion of a legacy band, I would imagine.

(Incidentally, free booze, a sunny Manchester and New Order at the MiF - I've had worse days! :-D)

If you think about it, unless you're really invested in a band, you're probably only ever going to see a band a handful of times (maybe only once for some people).
For them, they don't mind hearing hit after hit. That's really what they're paying to see.

Case in point, me and The Cure. I love early Cure (first 4 x LPs, plus Disintegration too) and have liked them since the late 80s.
Never been to see them live, but would like to.
However, I doubt I'd really be desperate to see them more than once. But you can bet that I would hope, when I they'd play A Forest, Boys Don't Cry and Love Song. If they didn't (no guarantees with Robert), although I might've enjoyed the gig, I'd likely walk away at least a little disappointed,

Yeah, but that's because you're a big fan. You'd've probably been pleased whatever they played. I know I would've been.

The average person who 'quite likes' the band and thinks it might make a good day out, will probably be a bit p'd off if the hits aren't played.

But, I do agree with you and -1 in that I would like to see the set shifted around quite a bit.
I think someone mentioned it before, but how cool would it be to start with Blue Monday?
Those drums etc. The crowd are likely to react positively and the band has still got plenty of killer tunes in the bag for the inevitable encore.

thank you all for the commentary.

i just wanted to backup my claims about the constant setlist, and the nonchanging parts mostly.

yes, we would like some variety or something fresh once in awhile, but we can hope for more MIF shows,
or one offs from time to time.

as long as they record in full, audio and video, that's good enough for me
(Looking at the orchestral Australian concert). still have only seen a few
clips from it.

later
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ne gative 1

Puzzled as to why they've dropped the Planet Funk version of WFTSC from the sets over recent years. I felt it was a big euphoric stomper that fitted in very well with the big hits set.

Think they played Thieves Like Us a couple of times some years back, within the last 10 years but maybe they decided it didn't flow with the set. Same with Lonesome Tonight which the played a few times circa 2015-16.

The gigs are more and more geared towards the big hitter crowd pleasers now, have been for a long time and that ain't gonna change now. You won't see something like Vicious Streak randomly dropped in , not sure they ever did that one live ever come to think.A shame because that's the kind of song Bernard would find his way around well with his vocals these days i think. How about Slow Jam? I know, i know but i always rated it!

Re: The Cure. First gig i ever went to was them at Birmingham NEC in 1985. God, it went on for hours. I liked their singles and various album cuts and still do but wasn't so familiar with some of their earlier stuff back then. Would probably love it more now as i know all their albums up to and including Disintergration well. Stuff after that like The Wish album not so much.

it's not about new music.

i don't care if new order drops in 2-3 songs from any 'recent' album or hypothetical 'new one'.

it's about the fact they have many other songs they could be using in the setlist

in case you havent noticed, many of the songs are not album tracks
- temptation
- blue monday
- ceremony
- touched by the hand of God
- true faith
- everythings gone green

so its not like they can't drop in 'this time of night', 'way of life', 'primitive notion' or some other non-hits,
because it wouldn't really matter. no one asked or supposedly liked sub-culture, but yet
no it is a constant (for the record i like it). but yes, 5-8-6, or thieves like us, or even
waiting for the sirens call could work.

would it be that hard to change the setlist up every year? they did it from 1980-2000,
and maybe a little longer.

it's not about bernard not hitting notes, his voice has been changing, and he has adapted
to new keys for the songs.

i think its just taking the easy way out, thats all.

later
-1

Edited by user 26 March 2023 16:08:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified