I immediately dislike this guy and I hope this is taken down.

I think it's crazy that credible websites support the bootleggers. If the band don't approve or release it, I would never dream of putting out music by my favourite artists. I consider it a slap in the face.

To be honest, if Rhino had done a better job of the Factory Years remasters back in 2008 these "bootleggers" would not have had to step in and treat the material with the respect it was crying out for. Those initial pressings of the '08 bonus discs were atrocious and getting replacements was arduous. Not to mention the fact that the majority of tracks on those Factory-era singles ignored by Rhino have continued to be out of print for a long, long time.

Personally, I don't really advocate copyrighted material being posted for all and sundry either - particularly full length albums still in print - but it's fairly obvious most of Recycle and the subsequent work carried out by Analog Loyalist targeted niche material which was never going to be released officially either due to alleged band apathy or the label's lack of confidence in it turning a profit.

Edited by user 21 November 2012 07:05:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You're right, "Total" was well mastered and sounds brilliant so no argument there. Unfortunately, it was common material we already had numerous times over on many other compilations (bar Hellbent); great for the supermarket/petrol station CD shelves, not so good for long-term fans wanting the rarities we all know are out there.

Anyway, it's good to debate it and I agree it's not a straightforward thing; there are convincing arguments on both sides.

From what I read today the founders of Recycle and The Smiths blogs have removed much of their material as of today...

Edited by user 21 November 2012 07:06:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think the issue is here that it's not the workings of the music industry that's up for debate, it's the morality (and perhaps legality) of one person/group, without express consent from an artist, releasing swathes of copyrighted material free-to-consumer and in a manner in which they do not directly gain. Even if the good will behind it is strong.

I find it inherently wrong. As someone who has worked for a major label, who works now with independent artists/labels, and as a rights owner myself, the magic word is approval, for which Recycle had none. As a label you would never work without it and the band expect it.

In my mind, if someone gave away my personal labels catalogue - for free - without asking me - I would be pissed off. But that's just me.

It's amazing how you've made it sound like an episode of 24 in that last post.

Calm yourself down darling.

You are right. I do not know anything.

Not allegedly. Emails received from Hooky but curiously not directly related to ULU. Until I hear otherwise I am treating it as a cease and desist for all other JD/NO activities. This snippet I posted on the blogs is part of a larger email today, the balance of which I am keeping to myself.

I will ask Hooky for clarification regarding the generic New Order Archives (non-official, independently-sourced soundboard recordings).

The context though does not bode well for things like JD/NO on Dime. He could easily ask Dime mods to put the groups on the Do Not list if he desired.

Perhaps Hooky can write a book about the bonus disc and do a few interviews?

Ya know, I would love to be able to pay the band and the record label for unreleased, properly mastered material, live or otherwise, I just don't think Warner's is interested. For decades they've been sitting on a treasure trove of stuff that they do absolutely nothing with and when they do bother to do something it's almost always things that have been released several times before terribly mastered by some 20-year old intern who knows nothing about the band. How many years did it take to just get the main 12" mixes released digitally on compact disc, and when they even did that the mastering was so bad the forum had to bug Peter to get someone to sort it out and reissue it again. Never mind the singles fiasco a few years back.
Unfortunately, if Warner did decide to do something it would probably take years to sort out, they would take the project away from Analog Loyalist and give it to some unqualified person, and then the results would be issued as expensive, poorly mastered CDs or poorly mastered iTunes 256 aac and certainly not lossless.
A lossless, subscription service similar to the New Order Archive project is surely the future but if the recording industry understood that they wouldn't be in the mess they're in!

I feel exactly the same way. I've purchased all the original albums, BBC discs, singles, compilations (even the redundant ones), DVDs, etc. I really enjoyed the remastered albums with the corrected discs which at least to my ears sound excellent. True they were missing a lot of rarities, but they were far more comprehensive than anything released by the band before.
Other than the NO remasters though, it's really been The Power of Independent Trucking and associated sites that has kept my interest in New Order going over the past five years. Things like the Western Works demos, Get Ready premix album, and live shows are the stuff I really want to hear as a fan. These "illegal releases" keep me engaged and interested in New Order during the often decades long gaps between high quality releases. It's amazing how something as small as Analog Loyalist actually correcting the pitch on a track like "Dead Souls" and releasing the track in lossless can send me back to listen to huge chunks of the Joy Division catalog again. The truly sad thing is not only would Warner's never ever release the things Analog Loyalist has, they can't even be bothered to fix the errors in the existing catalog before reissuing it ad infinitum. How long did it take AL to pitch correct "Dead Souls"? An hour maybe? How long did it take him to source a good vinyl copy of "24 Hours" live, rip it to digital, and master it so those of us who have purchased "Still" at least twice on CD may finally have the complete Birmingham gig, an afternoon and twenty bucks? These are things Warner's couldn't be bothered to do for paying customers. I think a big part of this is that Warner's really doesn't want a talented guy working with some off the shelf software and an Internet connection spoiling their customers with high quality and often unique unissued material they can't be bothered to issue themselves, because ultimately they're planning on flogging the same previously issued material again in the future without investing in improved quality to increase their margins.

Edited by user 01 December 2012 20:07:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Gary, as a person who is/was on the label side of the business, I (and others) would love to see some elaboration. Otherwise it's no different than me/us saying "no, YOU'RE totally incorrect" and waggling a tongue at you.

I mean this with all due respect. All we hear is "wrong. Incorrect." etc but there's no background.

I know for a fact that there *was* a series planned, by Warners and the band, of various live sets from 1981 onward through USA89. How do I know this? Because I have the gigs and the communications - to me, and Warners - from management. I still have them; none of them were going to be put up on the blogs for that reason (and that the sets I received from the band clearly aren't meant for sharing).

Then, *poof*. Plans completely abandoned, 5 years ago, and not a peep since from anyone involved regarding further activity. It got so far as mastered sets delivered to management, master approval by the band members themselves, and ready to ship to Warners.

You see why the fans feel the way they do? I know there was turnover at the label around this time but I have not a clue if this affected anything.