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Hooky: "Bernard and Steve tried to sue me for libel"
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Coops  
#26 Posted : 07 February 2013 03:19:51(UTC)
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Housey wrote:
jokes about Gillian 'shagging' her way into New Order.

I certainly view Phil Cunningham in a different light after reading that...
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Housey on 07/02/2013(UTC), Andy on 07/02/2013(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC), Sage_ on 09/02/2013(UTC)
Housey  
#27 Posted : 07 February 2013 03:55:00(UTC)
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I will say this: I don't think Hooky is 'evil,' far from it. I just think he's crass and makes really tasteless jokes and statements (and that's what he was doing here) and he needs to edit what comes out of his mouth a bit.

I do like his bass playing. In fact, I dabble in bass (poorly) because of him. If he was to bury the hatchet and come back, I'd be very happy about it. And I think I've always been pretty clear that I don't assume that anybody is the good guy/bad guy in the whole NO fallout-- we just don't know what really happened, and even though I'm an Other Two superfan, I would never assume that they're not capable of being assholes.

But he needs to play his bass and quit taking the media bait so much. It's not serving him and it's really shaded the way I feel about him. (I'm sure he's losing sleep at night over that.)

I'll say this as a woman: comments about getting a job because of who you were sleeping with are kinda loaded for us. Whether it's true or not in this case, it's a shitty thing to say.
And nobody held a gun to this man's head and forced him to be in a band with The Worst Musician Who Ever Musicianed, so I wish he'd stop bitching about it.
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NotAMod  
#28 Posted : 07 February 2013 06:24:20(UTC)
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tarbox23 wrote:
I find that to be more in tune with the contrarian, punk-spirited New Order that I grew up with in the 1980s. Hooky is proving you can keep that integrity, even as you grow older.


The New Order you grew up with in the 80s wouldn't have even considered flogging their Joy Division back catalogue in order to make a living. That's the part of the band I really do miss these days. They took the hard road and wrote new music and allowed that new music to speak for itself. Both Hooky and New Order are currently touring a very well known brand of purely historical music. Two brands for Hooky in fact, if you take into account the Hacienda.

I would guess he knows he will always get bums on seats with Unknown Pleasures shows which is why after 2 years they're still announcing new dates. Even after the recent Movement/PC&L shows there are yet more UP shows in the pipeline. Joy Division sells because - aside from the great music - it has the romance of Curtis being a fallen idol included and moronic teenagers love that (I used to be one). It's got to be one of the most profitable parts of their shared legacy and I guess he's realised that. It's also something the other surviving members of Joy Division barely touch - bar 2 or 3 tracks in the set - so there's a gap in the market.

Nobody is pretending New Order aren't doing it for money either, performing the singles nets them a very comfortable amount I'm sure. I certainly don't begrudge Hooky playing the songs or making his money and I'm sure the audiences enjoy them but let's not pretend as you say it's all part of some far fetched "punk ethic" and he's the only one left with any integrity. That's bollocks. New Order have as much integrity as he does, you simply prefer the set he's playing.

In my mind, whichever side bothers to write, record and tour new material rather than relying solely on legacy will rocket up in the integrity stakes.

Who will do it first?
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El Jarvo  
#29 Posted : 07 February 2013 06:58:49(UTC)
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leather-girl wrote:
As for why New Order have perhaps made more money for gigs, is that the name brand of 'New Order' is more known around the world than 'Peter Hook and The Light'. Also, like it or not, there seems to be more 'demand' around the world (especially at big festivals etc) for New Order playing their songs, than Peter Hook doing album tours of JD (and now New Order albums?).


The New Order 'brand' is a brand Hooky was also responsible for though, surely?

And I'm guessing the average punter would probably recognise Hooky ahead of Stephen or Gillian, or Phil?
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
Eimi  
#30 Posted : 07 February 2013 07:18:50(UTC)
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El Jarvo wrote:
leather-girl wrote:
As for why New Order have perhaps made more money for gigs, is that the name brand of 'New Order' is more known around the world than 'Peter Hook and The Light'. Also, like it or not, there seems to be more 'demand' around the world (especially at big festivals etc) for New Order playing their songs, than Peter Hook doing album tours of JD (and now New Order albums?).


The New Order 'brand' is a brand Hooky was also responsible for though, surely?

And I'm guessing the average punter would probably recognise Hooky ahead of Stephen or Gillian, or Phil?

Surely, Hooky was also responsible for the 'New Order' brand, but then, he is no longer with the band right now. I'm just trying to say there still is demand for New Order, (as evidenced in festivals etc) even though Hooky isn't currently part of it any more. The Light, and New Order have different kinds of audiences, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Edited by user 07 February 2013 07:19:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
NotAMod  
#31 Posted : 07 February 2013 07:32:24(UTC)
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El Jarvo wrote:
The New Order 'brand' is a brand Hooky was also responsible for though, surely?


Yes but evidently a brand (or band) which he felt he had unilateral control to end in 2006.

Which leads us back to the "I split the band" and "He left the band" arguments.
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Eimi  
#32 Posted : 07 February 2013 07:38:44(UTC)
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NotAMod wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
The New Order 'brand' is a brand Hooky was also responsible for though, surely?


Yes but evidently a brand (or band) which he felt he had unilateral control to end in 2006.

Which leads us back to the "I split the band" and "He left the band" arguments.

I personally think Hooky left, but maybe that's just me.
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bloodynora on 07/02/2013(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
bloodynora  
#33 Posted : 07 February 2013 08:46:50(UTC)
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aysie wrote:
If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...



Happy
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
Bill  
#34 Posted : 07 February 2013 09:50:23(UTC)
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It's occurred to me Hooky reminds me of alcoholics i've had the rather displeasure of knowing in my time. They all have this arrogant,obnoxious "i'm always right and you're a piece of shit" attitude.

Edited by user 07 February 2013 09:51:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC), Housey on 07/02/2013(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#35 Posted : 07 February 2013 09:57:50(UTC)
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NotAMod wrote:

Aside from that it's surprising to hear him say Regret was the last (proper) New Order song. At the time of Get Ready I remember reading many positive comments with Hooky about that LP; Crystal, 60 MPH, Turn My Way & Primitive Notion - not New Order songs?

I was gonna make the same point. The Regret-is-the-only-classic-NO-on-Republic line has been done to death for 20 years, but Get Ready was far more Hook-heavy and I myself as well as reviewers (I wasn't really into interviews) praised it for this very reason. Sirens is hardly Electronic either is it? Sounds like another case of Hooky shooting his mouth off.
The Gillian comment is harsh but he's been like that for a while now. I hope he just means she got the gig cos she knew Steve, not cos she was, ahem, 'shagging him'. (Note to self: Apply to be Melanie C's backing singer.)
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Michael Monkhouse  
#36 Posted : 07 February 2013 10:00:28(UTC)
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leather-girl wrote:
I still disagree with Hooky that Bernard allegedly was 'happiest' when she left.

Yeah I thought that was a bit hard to swallow. Isn't this just Hooky stirring the pooh again?
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
NotAMod  
#37 Posted : 07 February 2013 10:11:23(UTC)
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I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#38 Posted : 07 February 2013 10:15:36(UTC)
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Turn is one of their best post-Technique tracks in my opinion. Strong and very Hookified. It was touted as a single but we got Jetstream istead! (Actually I don't hate Jetstream the way a lot of fans do and Ana Matronic is cool.)
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
El Jarvo  
#39 Posted : 07 February 2013 10:39:06(UTC)
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NotAMod wrote:
I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?


I just don't get Turn. It's hardly a classic. Can't understand why people are always harping on about it here.




Sirens - the track - is infinitely better, IMO.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
No Barcode  
#40 Posted : 07 February 2013 10:48:48(UTC)
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El Jarvo wrote:
NotAMod wrote:
I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?


I just don't get Turn. It's hardly a classic. Can't understand why people are always harping on about it here.




Sirens - the track - is infinitely better, IMO.



This song also puzzled me. First, you get a perception that it is one of the "classic", Technique-like tracks... But then there's something wrong with it. Production? Lyrics? Chords? I cannot fathom it.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
Cranelane  
#41 Posted : 07 February 2013 11:30:28(UTC)
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Michael Monkhouse wrote:

The Gillian comment is harsh but he's been like that for a while now. I hope he just means she got the gig cos she knew Steve, not cos she was, ahem, 'shagging him'. (Note to self: Apply to be Melanie C's backing singer.)


There was a radio documentary recorded back around 87-88 in which I recall it being mentioned that it was Robs idea to get Gillian in the band, they wanted someone who wasn't a muso and who was from within the groups circle so really it was a case of being in the right place at the right time etc which is how they all got together in the first place anyway...
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ROCKET MICK on 07/02/2013(UTC)
Nick King  
#42 Posted : 07 February 2013 13:40:01(UTC)
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tarbox23 wrote:
[size=7]I really didn't like all the Ian Curtis imagery at the New Order Now show I saw in NYC last autumn. Felt really cultish. All the cheers and lighters in some silly reverence of the holy icon of Ian when Atmosphere was played was just juvenile.

Hook doesn't do any of that crap, he just plays the music.


And the fans don't do that at a Hooky gig?

Cool
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ROCKET MICK on 08/02/2013(UTC), JG on 09/02/2013(UTC)
ZASmusic  
#43 Posted : 07 February 2013 14:49:29(UTC)
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Nick King wrote:
tarbox23 wrote:
[size=7]I really didn't like all the Ian Curtis imagery at the New Order Now show I saw in NYC last autumn. Felt really cultish. All the cheers and lighters in some silly reverence of the holy icon of Ian when Atmosphere was played was just juvenile.

Hook doesn't do any of that crap, he just plays the music.


And the fans don't do that at a Hooky gig?

Cool


Seriously.

When I saw New Order in NYC last year, they played 3 (4 if you count Ceremony) Joy Division songs out of 16 or 17 songs in total.

They did 4 songs they came out after 2000.

They did 3 songs that were never singles but are classic album cuts (Elegia, AOC, 586, YSF). They also did a fan favorite (1963). They even dragged out Thieves Like Us back in Berlin. So not just a greatest hits set.

They played newly reworked versions of Temptation, True Faith, 586, Round and Round, Elegia.

So, about 90 percent of the entire night was about New Order. Yes, they did two JD songs in the encore and had the video footage of IC, paying respect.

So that is somehow more cultish than...

Hooky and his band playing entire JD albums, no newer material whatsoever, to a room full of punters. some of whom believe all of that "Ian Curtis died for you" bullshit. Really?

I remember when I saw Hooky and Co. do Closer...the show was great. Band sounded superb. I've always liked Hooky's singing voice (I love the first Revenge album). During the whole show, there were these people screaming "Fuck Bernard Sumner" and "JD are amazing, NO suck in every way". Felt pretty cultish to me.
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Eimi  
#44 Posted : 07 February 2013 19:51:09(UTC)
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El Jarvo wrote:
NotAMod wrote:
I was listening to "Turn" on my iPod earlier and marvelled at just how much Hooky bass dominates that track.

In a good way of course, it sounds superb.

Is that not a "New Order" song either?


I just don't get Turn. It's hardly a classic. Can't understand why people are always harping on about it here.




Sirens - the track - is infinitely better, IMO.


It's hardly a classic, but it's one of the better songs off the album, and I like the lyrics and melody. Much much better than 'Jetstream' or 'Working Overtime', IMO.
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ROCKET MICK on 08/02/2013(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#45 Posted : 08 February 2013 00:53:30(UTC)
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Everyone's welcome to their opinion, which means I'm right. Anyway I think Turn is easily the best track on Sirens - heartfelt and melancholic in the best NO tradition.
Re Gillian, the general idea from interviews is they weren't gonna audition a new singer or it would've been JD2, they wanted someone who could play OK but didn't have a distinctive, recognisable sound - so yeah, right place / time. In John Peel's '93 Radio 1 doc Tony Wilson said it was Rob's idea to bring her in. I don't think Hook's comments on her abilities / contribution are fair either, but I went on about that in another post.
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ROCKET MICK on 08/02/2013(UTC)
Rorschach  
#46 Posted : 09 February 2013 09:23:14(UTC)
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aysie wrote:
If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...




Very nicely put.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/02/2013(UTC)
JG  
#47 Posted : 09 February 2013 09:38:00(UTC)
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aysie wrote:
If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...


Well, I suspect many have been thinking that for years, someone had to say it eventually.

I wonder if deep down, that's a key factor behind the immense insecurity Hook displays in his interviews.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/02/2013(UTC)
0_o  
#48 Posted : 09 February 2013 10:05:12(UTC)
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JG wrote:
aysie wrote:
If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...


Well, I suspect many have been thinking that for years, someone had to say it eventually.

I wonder if deep down, that's a key factor behind the immense insecurity Hook displays in his interviews.



This is all very silly. You can play that game with all of them, with most guys who end up in the music business. Where would Bernard be without Ian? Would anybody ever heard of Joy Division without Tony Wilson and Factory? Would anybody have ever heard of Gillian if Ian had not killed humself? If New Order had not been a success, would Hooky and Bernard have lived out their lives on the dole addicted to H? What if Ian had quit Joy Division and never killed himself, would anybody ever had heard of Bernard or Hooky except as footnotes to Ian's early band? If Gillian was not Steve's girlfriend, would she be like Susan Boyle? Without JD... would Steve had been a banker? Would Hooky have been a cat burglar and lived out his life in prison? Would Bernard have joined Depeche Mode or just been unemployed all his life?

Edited by user 09 February 2013 10:24:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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ROCKET MICK on 10/02/2013(UTC)
JG  
#49 Posted : 09 February 2013 10:31:26(UTC)
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0_o wrote:
JG wrote:
aysie wrote:
If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...


Well, I suspect many have been thinking that for years, someone had to say it eventually.

I wonder if deep down, that's a key factor behind the immense insecurity Hook displays in his interviews.



This is all very silly. You play that game with all of them. Where would Bernard be without Ian? Would anybody ever heard of Joy Division without Tony Wilson? Would anybody have ever heard of Gillian if Ian had not killed humself? If New Order had not been a success, would Hooky and Bernard have lived out their lives on the dole addicted to H? What if Ian had quit Joy Division and never killed himself, would anybody ever had heard of Bernard? If Gillian was not Steve's girlfriend, would she be like Susan Boyle without the success? Without JD... would Steve had been a banker? Would Hooky have been a cat burglar and lived out his life in prison? Would Bernard have joined Depeche Mode?


Nowhere near as silly as that. Yes, things would have unfolded differently without the events you list above but the main talent which has taken them to where they are today rests with Ian & Bernard, the primary song writers. It's less clear where Hook would have got to with the songwriting talent displayed in Revenge & Freebass. Monaco were heavily dependant on the talent of Pottsy, one listen to his solo album shows us that.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/02/2013(UTC)
kinozon  
#50 Posted : 09 February 2013 10:44:27(UTC)
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0_o wrote:
JG wrote:
aysie wrote:
If he hadn't been at school with Bernard, I don't think he would have got the gig, to be honest...


Well, I suspect many have been thinking that for years, someone had to say it eventually.

I wonder if deep down, that's a key factor behind the immense insecurity Hook displays in his interviews.



Would Bernard have joined Depeche Mode or just been unemployed all his life?


I cant imagine Barney wearing leather pants or a lether skirt if he was part of DM. That would be such a horrible sight. I see Barney becoming more of a fortune teller or a hypnotist. Hooky would've probably plot to kill Sid V, so he can replace him as the Sex Pistols bass player. Wait a minute didn't Sid apperently die from OD, hmmm...wonder where Hooky was on that day? Wink Steve would've been a college professor on the art of war, and Gillian would've start a band with Andrew Fletcher(depeche mode) and would been the 1st band to become a band and never record a single album or a song!!! LOL! J/K
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ROCKET MICK on 10/02/2013(UTC)
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