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Originally Posted by: Andy  Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse I never repeat myself. I told you before. Come again? Don't say that. He'll just figure out a way to work Sporty Spice into his response.
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I was impotent but the doc cured me. - Come again?
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note My thoughts are that he *did* design a proper sleeve, we just don't perceive it as such. I will also add that the sleeve was indeed "designed" in that it has both "NEW ORDER" and "FAC 133" printed on the spine (at least that's what's on my UK copy). Contrary to popular belief, that alone disqualifies the sleeve from being "generic" as most people describe it. That's my opinion at least. I'm further of the opinion that the John Robie remixes are incredible and better the album version, but know that's been argued endlessly elsewhere and that I am probably in the minority there.  -Mike
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Originally Posted by: steinomite Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note My thoughts are that he *did* design a proper sleeve, we just don't perceive it as such. I will also add that the sleeve was indeed "designed" in that it has both "NEW ORDER" and "FAC 133" printed on the spine (at least that's what's on my UK copy). Contrary to popular belief, that alone disqualifies the sleeve from being "generic" as most people describe it. That's my opinion at least. -Mike Really? That's interesting. My copy doesn't anything on it.Well, i mean the sleeve is basically as thin as an inner sleeve and therefore absolutely no space enough to have any type on the spine.  Edited by user 11 November 2022 11:34:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note
2. New Order was still considered an indie band, but trying to make serious inroads to dance music culture. Most club DJs are used a 12" in a plain black or white die-cut sleeve. The simple black sleeve for Sub-Culture harkens back to the black die-cut sleeve for Blue Monday, which was their biggest success on the dance floor up to that point - although it's fair to point out Sub-Culture was printed on higher quality stock than a standard issue die-cut sleeve. It's a bit glossy, which makes it stand out. That's a deliberate design choice. The black and white label also gives it the feel of a promo 12", and club DJs love to be the first to play anything. So I think it was designed to make it look a bit like a promo to try and gain traction among DJs.
I'm with you on the theory that Saville went for a blank black sleeve as , like you say, it was the way with dance culture and DJs to have the sleeves like that.It fitted in with that dance and DJ culture.And yeah, it has a slight gloss to it, not just a cheap black sleeve (though the 7" is !). I vaguely recall walking to the record shop when it was released and curious to see what artwork Saville had done for the release and then in the shop it was " Oh, it's just a black sleeve" .But there was a niggling feeling that that was Saville's intention.
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Hang on, he's told us more than once that he wasn't asked and that he didn't design a sleeve for Subculture. But the idea that this basic-bitch sleeve was Saville's design is being re-floated?
Hmm. I'll stick to what Saville said. If anyone did make a decision on that basic but glossy sleeve, surely someone like Wilson or Gretton would be the obvious contender?
Incidentally I remember seeing that thing in one record shop (and only one shop) and thinking: Oh they haven't got it in the proper sleeve, I'll wait til I see it with a proper artwork sleeve before I consider buying...
So I never bought it. My first time hearing that mix (edited) was Substance.
PS I'm one of the people who liked that mix when I heard it in Substance edit form. And the 7" edit too, which zips along so fast, I have to go back and play it a second time.
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Well, either way, i was as shocked and surprised as much by the fact Sub Culture had no artwork as i had been by the album having photos of the band on the sleeves. Who would have ever thought a Joy Division or New Order record would have photos of the band on ?!
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Has it never been considered that the plain sleeve was also actually a cost-saving measure on the part of Factory (in direct contrast to the Blue Monday sleeve debacle)?
In fact it makes me wonder about the "new" sleeve for the reissue 12" due as part of the definitive edition
If they'd have followed the original design and just had a plain black card disco jacket, then the production costs for that particular 12" would be considerably less than for the other two 12" reissues
And therefore they would have been hard-pushed to price it the same without looking like rob-dogs
I really like the new design for what it's worth!
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The Product Details in the New Order store for the forthcoming FAC 133 reissue more or less clear up the matter... Peter Saville says of the updated sleeve: "LABEL ONLY was specified in 1985 due to time pressure around the original release and as a consequence, a sleeve design for the re-release has no actual precedent. However, exploring the principle 'the solution is in the problem’ has led to the subliminal evocation of a sleeve that is still LABEL ONLY."
-Mike
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