Like I said on the Facebook thread, the punks played around with symbols to be purposely provocative, just like their music was. The Sex Pistols infamously had a girl with a bouffant in Nazi uniform dancing onstage with them when they appeared on Tony Wilson's show. It was just trendy. Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Depeche Mode had all kinds of communist symbols on their sleeves because that's what was trendy later on. I'm pretty sure they were all more concerned with looking cool and edgy than promoting any kind of political philosophy.

Seeing as the JD/NO band members almost never talk about politics, there's not much evidence to support that they were being political. One of the few instances Bernard does refer to politics is in New Order Story where he refers to James Anderton as having been a "particularly annoying spot on the face of Manchester." Anderton was known for his oppresive police tactics and far right policies, including support for the National Front. So there's that...

Edited by user 21 January 2015 08:09:19(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Bernard has written the definitive words about it in his book: they never were nazis.

Stephen Morris told into Simon Reynolds' book that the group's obsession with the Nazi iconography came up with their desire to maintain live the memories and the sacrifices from their relatives along the II World War and the accusations of Nazi sympathy left them angrier, then they kept with this attitude for pure provocation.

Edited by user 04 March 2015 11:53:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

In the mid-1980s, New Order did a TV commercial for Sunkist:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2g9UJdH4MM&list=RDO2g9UJdH4MM#t=39[/YOUTUBE]


For many years it was baggage hanging over the band's shoulders...

...but perhaps not now:

http://home.bt.com/news/odd-news/coca-cola-withdraws-an-advert-that-referred-to-nazi-germany-as-the-good-old-times-11363966328820

I've been fortunate enough to have gotten to spend some time hanging out with everyone in New Order on several occasion,s and have had some pretty lengthy and deep conversations with them. So believe me when I tell you they they are not Nazi's, they never were Nazi's, and never will be. "Conservative" is one word that I'd never apply to any of them. The folks in New Order are all pretty progressive, open minded, and accepting people. Same goes for their road crew and management.

A lot of Punk band's used Nazi imagery in the late 70's, post modern appropriation of Nazi visual aesthetic is common today in the worlds of music and fashion...it is about stripping that aesthetic of its power. There are quite a few scholarly articles on this subject.

New Order grew up in the aftermath of WW2, remember, and that has an effect on you. My Grandmother grew up in Nazi occupied Greece and her stories definitely had an effect on me. And I am four generations removed from WW2.

Plus, everyone does dumb shit in their early late teens early 20's. When I was 19, I had bleached white hair and wore silver pants. What are ya gonna do?

Edited by user 06 March 2015 09:14:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

During the 2011/12 tour in the States Bernard told the crowd that he'd vote for Obama. If that does not prove he is a Nazi, nothing else will! BTW what happened to Sid Vicious' red swastika shirt?

You lucky bastard!!

Sent you a PM.